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Topic: release 0.6, what is ETA?

I was just wondering when would 0.6 be declared as stable?

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Re: release 0.6, what is ETA?

If you don't help to test it and feedback to project, it won't be released as STABLE.

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Re: release 0.6, what is ETA?

Well, it works Ok for me.
Not in production mode, but on a test system.

I think it is a good base to build on a more specific solutions, like adding colaboration packages, but that should be up to users to decide what to add on cause you can not possibly meet all of requests for features.

I do not know if you are waiting for new features requests that you might want to include, or there are some bugs, and there will always be some, even in stable release.

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Re: release 0.6, what is ETA?

We are working on 0.6-beta2, ships ejabberd, iRedAPD. and we are waiting for bug report.

5 (edited by 011 2010-01-22 00:53:28)

Re: release 0.6, what is ETA?

If I may quote from a web:

"What iRedMail is
•A fully fledged email server solution"

I can't really comment on how and why would ejabberd be a thing to consider when setting up iredmail system, cause it is an application to be used with instant messaging clients. Has nothing to do with anything how email works.

Any addon service, regardles how useful and popular is, needing it's own ports and packages, only lowers security and stability of what is supposed to be a stable emailing system.

That being said, would it not be better to have iredmail system, with features related to email services, as a stable and proven framework, focused on email, and all other services, like ejabbberd, to be an optional addon features, after iredmail system is setup.

6 (edited by Suno Ano 2010-01-22 00:59:43)

Re: release 0.6, what is ETA?

011 wrote:

I can't really coment on how and why would ejabberd be a thing to consider when setting up iredmail system cause, it is an application to be used with instant messaging clients. Has nothing to do with anything how email works.

It's another form of communication and it's a good one in case you want instant actions to happen. The fact that the project is still called iRedMail isn't a problem ... we just change the name in order to reflect that in fact it's not just email but maybe email, xmpp and groupware, all brought together nicely with some layer of ldap and whatnot sitting below those services.

011 wrote:

Any addon service, regardles how useful and popular is, needing it's own ports and packages, it only lower security and stability of what is supposed to be a stable emailing system.

Well, that's a very shortsighted point of view since the packages used are stable releases. The point however is, if the added value is a good one (which it is) then it's just fine to add additional functionality.

011 wrote:

That being said, woould it not be better to have iredmail system, with features related to email services, as a stable and proven framework, focused on email, and all other services, like ejabbberd, to be an optional addon features, after iredmail system is setup.

The more folks help with testing, the more "stable" it will be. If we can attract a bunch of new users by adding some XMPP service then this will ultimately be a bunch of users that help with testing too. If you think about it, adding more functionality will probably create a better IRM rather then a worse one. And ejabber will be optional from what I know so no need to worry ... you'll only have it if you choose so when installing IRM.

7 (edited by 011 2010-01-22 01:26:53)

Re: release 0.6, what is ETA?

"What iRedMail is
•A fully fledged email server solution"

Does your point of view mean that above is no longer true?

When you say "adding more functionality" do you mean email related functionality or "nothing-to-do-with-email functionality"?
In case of first, I agree that that would bring new people who wants fully fledged email system. In case of second, what will happen when a new group says that they want to replace jabber with something else?
Would you waste time discusing non-email-related issues running on a syste,that has to do only one, and a couple related, email related services?

When you say "The more folks help with testing" do you mean testing email server setup or testing services that are not email related?
If iredmail is really going to be a colaboration suite, it would be fair to declare that first.

I know that jabber is another form of communication. As well as any BB.
All I am saying it is not at all email type of communication.

What attracted people here are "A fully fledged email server solution", which translate to "if any issue, it would be only email related issue"
Not words like "A fully fledged all-kinds-of-communication server solution" which translate to "who knows what will confict with what"

Email administrators are not always interested in managing jabber type of service, nor do I think that most of them woould like to have it incorporated on a stable emailing system.

Me, for example, would first look for how not to install not-emal related services if this becomes a path of iredmail.
Do you really think that person responsible to administer a "fully fledged email system" what iredmail still claims to be, have a time to worry about service that has security fixes once a month?

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Re: release 0.6, what is ETA?

Speaking of feedback. How does bug reporting work for this? I'd be happy to test the newest beta on a test system. Just need a little direction as what bugfixes need to be found

9 (edited by Suno Ano 2010-01-22 02:34:54)

Re: release 0.6, what is ETA?

011 wrote:

Email administrators are not always interested in managing jabber type of service, nor do I think that most of them woould like to have it incorporated on a stable emailing system.

As said, these days communication happens through many channels. As I also said, XMPP will be optional. Thinking a company just wants/needs email isn't true anymore ... a company and/or individual wants to have a communication package that can deliver on email, xmpp and maybe even groupware.

I don't see why you seem to be concerned ... think of IRM as of a communication package with email at its core and optional parts like XMPP. That's what corporations and/or individuals expect these days.

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Re: release 0.6, what is ETA?

Suno Ano wrote:

[I don't see why you seem to be concerned ...

If you are PR of iredmail, and it seems like it as you do use words like "we just" I would just sugest to change description of what iredmail really is.

There is a saying "to many cooks spoil the broth".
I hope that adding non-email-related-services to the core of a project will not turn out to be another confirmation of such saying. sad

Being interested in a solution that deals only with email, such services, even if disabled, due to their non-email-related requirements, do not bring any value. cool

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Re: release 0.6, what is ETA?

I believe in the adage don't put all your eggs in one basket; although add-on features like ejabberd is nice to have but the main focus should be to extend the email functionality e.g. UI to monitor and release quarantined emails, monitor and manage email related services which I believe will be included in the next release, right?, enable users to manage SPAM similar to Zimbra. As regards addons, IMO the right approach would be to enable administrators to use the iRedMail's LDAP schema as authentication mechanism to bind other services like Samba, FTP, Proxy and be able to manage those bound services through iRedMail or is this asking too much already big_smile

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Re: release 0.6, what is ETA?

011 wrote:

I hope that adding non-email-related-services to the core of a project will not turn out to be another confirmation of such saying.

yes, I think the iredmail would focus on the email relate services, but in my view, the ejabberd is mail relate service.

I hope the ejabberd and iredmail. just like gtalk and gmail, can work together.

13 (edited by 011 2010-01-27 09:47:35)

Re: release 0.6, what is ETA?

shake wrote:

just like gtalk and gmail

You can not compare a company like google, and their application coexistance with a iredmail project that would try to make such setup by using projects that have nothing in common. Next thing you will compare MSN and outlook ntegration with iredmail plus ejabberd. wink

I mean, google and MS teams will do as their bosses to ask in a goal of "Me, Me and only Me"
In open source world, each project, even if it is just a copmilation of open source packages like this one, has its own leader. And communication between leaders of unrelated projects sometimes do not work.
And I understand that email and messaging can be part of the same system but...

How are you going to prioritize?
What is more important, that email is scanned and proccesed properly, or that messenger services do their thing first?
Which one of unrelated/undependant projects would say "OK, we will lower our resource requirements, so that your services run better."
That is why in real world, each of such services do run in its own envoroment. So if there is a problem with jabber why even have opportunity to think that posfix people are messing server up?

However, if long term idea is to turn iredmail in to a groupware project, this is the right way to do it.


And ejabberd is messenger type service, does not need anything that email service does.
Not same protocols, ports, only user backend sharing via LDAP but...
What is going to be of iredmail people that do want to stay with mysql backend?

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Re: release 0.6, what is ETA?

@011, After discussion, we prefer to keep iRedMail as a core mail solution without any other services (IM, FTP, VPN, Samba, etc), but we MAY public integration tutorials later.

Thanks very much. smile

15 (edited by Suno Ano 2010-01-27 15:44:13)

Re: release 0.6, what is ETA?

ZhangHuangbin wrote:

@011, After discussion, we prefer to keep iRedMail as a core mail solution without any other services (IM, FTP, VPN, Samba, etc), but we MAY public integration tutorials later.

Thanks very much. smile

What does that mean for ejabber in 0.6? It will be available but optional right? You said so.

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Re: release 0.6, what is ETA?

011 wrote:

And ejabberd is messenger type service, does not need anything that email service does.
Not same protocols, ports, only user backend sharing via LDAP but...
What is going to be of iredmail people that do want to stay with mysql backend?

Dude, you pissing me of, seriously. You don't want ejabber, don't choose to install it. It will be optional. Please recognize this: Many here wanted to have an XMPP service for a long time now, way before you showed up here ... so ... just let it go by all means, will you?

Had to be said, sorry :-)

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Re: release 0.6, what is ETA?

Suno Ano wrote:

What does that mean for ejabber in 0.6? It will be available but optional right? You said so.

Ejabberd won't be shipped in iRedMail, even as an optional component.

As @011 suggested, i prefer to keep iRedMail as a pure email solution. And as i said in previous post, we MAY public integration tutorials later, include ejabberd, PureFTPD, OpenVPN, etc.

That means i have more time to spend on EMAIL solution, and save much time which should be spent on addition components.

18 (edited by Suno Ano 2010-01-27 16:24:13)

Re: release 0.6, what is ETA?

ZhangHuangbin wrote:

After discussion, ...

Where did this "discussion" take place? I am on the mailing list as well as on #iredmail all the time. There where no discussion about this. Please don't tell me the two of you emailed back and forth and then decided for all the rest of us.

Why don't we just put up a poll, see what the community thinks about shipping ejabberd as an optional part? This is a community project no?

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Re: release 0.6, what is ETA?

Suno Ano wrote:

Where did this "discussion" take place? I am on the mailing list as well as on #iredmail all the time. There where no discussion about this. Please don't tell me the two of you emailed back and forth and then decided for all the rest of us.

Why don't we just put up a poll, see what the community thinks about shipping ejabberd as an optional part? This is a community project no?

I must apologize to you for my promise in email.

I think it's not a good idea to create or maintain an ALL-IN-ONE project/product, at least not NOW. Publicing integration tutorials should be better than integrating them directly. Integrations take me so much time to maintain (upgrade components, testing, etc) these 3rd party components and what most of users need is an email server solution. So, as @011 suggested, keep iRedMail as a pure email solution should be better.

And, community project doesn't mean 'user requests feature X, developers must implement it', but it means you can contribute to help to implement it. smile

iRedMail is almost a framework to help you integrate 3rd party components with OpenLDAP, it would be great that someone can maintain these 3rd party components integration scripts, such as Ejabberd, OpenVPN, PureFTPD, Samba, etc.

20 (edited by 011 2010-01-27 23:05:10)

Re: release 0.6, what is ETA?

Suno Ano wrote:

you pissing me of

You are just a child, right? tongue

I would leave up to yoo if you want to continue to insinuate the plots and to live in a horor of conspiracy against you. roll

21 (edited by 011 2010-01-27 23:31:55)

Re: release 0.6, what is ETA?

Suno Ano wrote:

This is a community project no?

This is where you show why your understanding of projects like iredmail and alike fails.

This is a project that has its creator and the leader.
By the nature of the project community is welcome to contribute but it is not a democracy as you wish to see it. lol

Open source is full of examples where people did take a turn and made a fork-out of existing project and made it customized based on their needs. Those people woud be like yourself. However you would find that in iredmail case, at the moment, this is not possible. yikes

On the other hand, iredmail can become modular, thus providing interface for add-on services.
And this is a first step when persuing requests like for ejabber, make plug-in frame, not for one, but for all. cool

Of two, if you do research, top one preveils. You figure out why cause I am not telling.

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Re: release 0.6, what is ETA?

ZhangHuangbin wrote:

I must apologize to you for my promise in email.

no worries, the sudden shift just appeard strange to me so I got ... well, surprised in a negative way I guess. It's fine now, I can always roll my own xmpp on top of irm.


ZhangHuangbin wrote:

Integrations take me so much time to maintain (upgrade components, testing, etc) these 3rd party components and what most of users need is an email server solution.

You didn't say so before so I wasn't aware. You know I am quite busy right now myself otherwise I would step in and help.

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Re: release 0.6, what is ETA?

Actually, UCS looks quite nice too; it already features ejabberd integration http://forum.univention.de/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=668