1 (edited by RestlessPM 2016-06-10 22:00:59)

Topic: Grayed Out Emails? Can't Open

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This is really weird! Users has been complaining that they're not receiving emails on their phones or Apple Mail app on Macbook. When I checked their inboxes on the RoundCube web interface I saw the emails but they were grayed out! (see screenshot). When I checked on the SOGo web interface they weren't in the inbox but they were in the Junk folder?

I thought I knew what the problem was, I tweaked a few things, restarted the server and asked the users to removed all accounts from all of their devices. I then manually moved the emails from the Junk folder to the Inbox and asked the users to configure accounts on their devices again. When the users told me that they're still missing some emails I checked again and the emails were nowhere to be found.

Needless to say that the users are ready to pull their hair out. Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you!

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2 (edited by RestlessPM 2016-06-10 21:53:36)

Re: Grayed Out Emails? Can't Open

Update: so I found the files of the lost messages (whoo-hoo!) but when I tried to import them using the command I found on the wiki: http://wiki2.dovecot.org/Tools/Doveadm/Import nothing happened.

This is the command line I used: doveadm -Dv import -u user@example.com maildir:/tmp/store INBOX all

I also tried copying the message files to maildir without the import command, the emails showed up in the inbox but they were greyed out.

What am I doing wrong?

3

Re: Grayed Out Emails? Can't Open

Some MUAs or webmails will mark email as deleted (by imap flag/label) instead of deleting them directly or moving to Trash folder, this will cause "grey out" emails like you said.

If you see they're greyed out in Roundcube, please try with Roundcube, does it offer any options to remove this kind of label/flag?

4

Re: Grayed Out Emails? Can't Open

Thanks Zhang, do you have any idea why would any MUAs mark these emails as deleted? Our users definitely didn't delete these emails as they didn't know about them or couldn't even open them. Our users never use RoundCube or the web-interface to check email, only on their iPhone, Android, Macbook and Outlook.

Even more strange... The same emails were in different folders in RoundCube and SOGo. In RoundCube they were in the inbox and grayed out but in SOGo they were in the Junk folder and not greyed out.

With this specific user in the example and screenshot, the user is using and iPhone and mail app on Macbook to read emails. The configuration on the Macbook is IMAP and Exchange on the iPhone.

5

Re: Grayed Out Emails? Can't Open

Does this end user have option "Enable Junk mail filtering" enabled in Apple Mail.app (Preferences -> Junk Mail)?

6 (edited by RestlessPM 2016-06-16 06:52:36)

Re: Grayed Out Emails? Can't Open

Yes Zhang, this user does have 'Enable junk mail filtering' enabled in the Apple Mail.app preferences. See screenshot: http://screencast.com/t/inCbQkvZMRnN

This seem to narrow down the options to the Apple Mail.app. Worth mentioning that the user reported that he could see the emails on his iPhone when he was out of the office but when returned to the office and opened the Apple Mail.app on his computer the emails were not in his inbox. He then checked his iPhone again and the emails disappeared!

The user then checked his inbox in RoundCube and this is what it looked like: http://awesomescreenshot.com/0bf5y94hf9
The user then checked his Junk mail folder in the Apple Mail.app on his computer and the missing emails were there
The user then selected all and marked as 'Not Junk'
The emails were still not in his inbox so he moved them to his inbox and everything looks fine on the Apple Mail.app but now his inbox in RoundCube looks like this: http://awesomescreenshot.com/0db5y96pff

7

Re: Grayed Out Emails? Can't Open

I suggest disabling "Enable junk mail filtering" in Apple Mail.app for some days for testing purpose.

8

Re: Grayed Out Emails? Can't Open

What are your thoughts Zhang? We can certainly disable the filter for a day or two. What should the user do next if disabling 'Enable junk mail filtering' will indeed indicate that iRedMail was behaving in this way as a result of the filter?

9

Re: Grayed Out Emails? Can't Open

Then disable the junk filter in Apple Mail.app, let iRedMail server do the filter.

10

Re: Grayed Out Emails? Can't Open

The user has also other non-iRedMail accounts configured with his Apple Mail.app. Can iRedMail work with Apple Mail.app without such side-effects?

11

Re: Grayed Out Emails? Can't Open

RestlessPM wrote:

Can iRedMail work with Apple Mail.app without such side-effects?

I use Apple Mail.app every day (with 'Enable Junk filter' disabled), i have no idea how to avoid this side-effect (it's a Mail.app issue, not server-side), sorry.

12

Re: Grayed Out Emails? Can't Open

Since Apple Mail.app is one of the world's most popular mail clients, it's working smoothly with many and world's largest email providers, I can't ask users not to use it. They'll look at me like I'm crazy and let me go long before they'll even remotely consider not using their their Apple products that they love so much smile

Is there any way to fix iRedMail so it'll work without side effects with Apple Mail.app?

13

Re: Grayed Out Emails? Can't Open

I have no idea, sorry.

I suggest posting to Dovecot and/or Roundcube mailing lists to ask for help.

14

Re: Grayed Out Emails? Can't Open

Hi Zhang,

Turns out Apple Mail.app isn't the cause for the greyed out emails as we thought. We disabled 'Enable junk filter' two days ago and new emails are still grey in RoundCube or completely missing from the inbox in Apple Mail.app and iPhone. The missing emails are in the junk folder in Apple Mail.app and iPhone. So if Apple Mail.app isn't the problem, what is? Any clue?

15

Re: Grayed Out Emails? Can't Open

RestlessPM wrote:

The missing emails are in the junk folder in Apple Mail.app and iPhone.

Do those email appear in INBOX in other MUA? e.g. Thunderbird, Outlook?

16

Re: Grayed Out Emails? Can't Open

Hello,

I have this problem also and here is my discovery story :-)

1) What I see and tested out is that the problem is only for mac users.

2) I work with rules on my mac to move the email to a subfolder -> for example newsletters
    -- When a rule is affected on an email the mail is in gray in "Inbox folder"
    -- And i can find the original mail in the subfolder as expected.

3) There is a way to remove all emails that are marked "deleted"
     -> Open mac mail
     -> Select "mailbox"
     -> Select "Delete Removed parts"
     -> For all accounts (Shift + cmd + backspace)
     -> you get popup " Are you sure ... to remove"
     -> Delete and your webmail has a normal layout.

One important piece -> this is only possible if trash has these settings
-> fn + cmd + ,
-> select your mailbox
-> select tab mailbox settings
-> trash -> both checked and dropdown is never selected.

So here you have some details to reproduce.

I will keep my eye on this post ;-)

17

Re: Grayed Out Emails? Can't Open

Seems a Mac Mail.app "issue" (it causes confusion), maybe you should report this in Apple support forum?

18

Re: Grayed Out Emails? Can't Open

Kris01 wrote:

Hello,

I have this problem also and here is my discovery story :-)

1) What I see and tested out is that the problem is only for mac users.

2) I work with rules on my mac to move the email to a subfolder -> for example newsletters
    -- When a rule is affected on an email the mail is in gray in "Inbox folder"
    -- And i can find the original mail in the subfolder as expected.

3) There is a way to remove all emails that are marked "deleted"
     -> Open mac mail
     -> Select "mailbox"
     -> Select "Delete Removed parts"
     -> For all accounts (Shift + cmd + backspace)
     -> you get popup " Are you sure ... to remove"
     -> Delete and your webmail has a normal layout.

One important piece -> this is only possible if trash has these settings
-> fn + cmd + ,
-> select your mailbox
-> select tab mailbox settings
-> trash -> both checked and dropdown is never selected.

So here you have some details to reproduce.

I will keep my eye on this post ;-)

Thank you very much for your input Kris. I reproduced the steps you mentioned and have a few questions:

2) The user has only a few rules for all his email accounts and zero rules that related to the one of the affected inboxes.
  -- Any clue why would Apple Mail.app move these emails to the junk folder? Screenshot: http://screencast.com/t/JlqDanpI
  -- The user doesn't have any sub-folders for this mailbox. See screenshot: http://screencast.com/t/Xkb8ItQ5T

3) Tried to reproduce but couldn't reproduce step 3
     -- Couldn't find "Delete Removed parts" in the "mailbox" menu. See screenshot: http://screencast.com/t/2HAmYpDWsl

Couldn't understand the last piece:

"One important piece -> this is only possible if trash has these settings
-> fn + cmd + ,
-> select your mailbox
-> select tab mailbox settings
-> trash -> both checked and dropdown is never selected."

Thank you very much for your help!

19 (edited by Kris01 2016-06-21 03:07:57)

Re: Grayed Out Emails? Can't Open

Sorry for step 3

It's "Erase deleted items"  (My mac language is dutch)

Anyway there is a shortcut to pop this window. ( shift + cmd + backspace)

These are my settings for my trash  -> http://www.screencast.com/t/W8tUd4L7

20

Re: Grayed Out Emails? Can't Open

I think is logical delete dat apple mail enforces. (State change)

When you do (shift + cmd + backspace) you enforece fysical delete. (File remove from server)

21

Re: Grayed Out Emails? Can't Open

Thanks again Kris! We're actually don't want to delete these emails! These emails are not junk and very important to us. Are you aware of any way to avoid these emails from going to the junk folder? I still don't understand why they even get there in the first place. The user's 'Junk mail filtering' is disabled: http://screencast.com/t/FOPtBnOJ6eX2
and there are no rules in his Apple Mail.app for apply to this email account. Could the problem not be with Apple Mail.app?

22

Re: Grayed Out Emails? Can't Open

I think you have a combination of problems.

I have a behavior that my emails are in grayed out because a rule moves them.

behavior of a rule ->  Copy mail to folder and do Logical delete.

You in other hand have emails in junk folder. -> this can be also triggerd on the server side.

Please check if your settings or configuration is working properly.

I did experiment with upgrade proces in the past and i remember i had the same result. (Mail keep stuck on server)

-> My solution was easy, i reverted my environment do start the upgrade all over again.

Hope this little bit helps

(Zhang correct me if i am wrong)

23

Re: Grayed Out Emails? Can't Open

The key of troubleshooting is narrowing down the possible causes, so please try to make sure one part involved in this issue is or is not the cause.

So, as @Kris01 mentioned, server-side global or per-user sieve filters may move detected spam to Junk folder, you should double check whether the moving is caused by server-side filter or your MUA.

24

Re: Grayed Out Emails? Can't Open

Thanks @kris01 that worked! :-)